INTERVIEW WITH ABHINAV BINDRA ( YL FRANCE-INDIA 2023 ) AND PASCAL GENTIL (YL FRANCE-CHINA 2018 )

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: Pascal Gentil, can you tell us about your experience in China? Did you take part in the 2008 Games?

Pascal Gentil: As it happens, I wasn't selected to take part in the 2008 Beijing Games because of an injury I sustained a month before the event. That's when I went to China, where I met the woman who was to become my wife: a Frenchwoman who had learned Mandarin at a university near my home in Aix-en-Provence. We've been married for 15 years. My son was born and raised in China. At Veolia, I was in charge of relations with embassies and chambers of commerce. Internally, I was in charge of security for the company, which had ten thousand employees. I also worked for the Beijing Olympic Committee for four years. I was in charge of intermediation when the IOC (International Olympic Committee) delegation came to China, because I speak Mandarin.

I knew all the people in the Olympic movement, including Thomas Bach, the IOC President. I was the interpreter between the Chinese and the IOC. I spent four years doing that for the Olympic Games and six years working for Veolia in Beijing. In between, I worked with the president of the Paris 2024 Organizing Committee, Tony Estanguet. For this reason, I returned to France in August 2014 and stayed there until, in September 2017, Paris' bid was successful. Then I returned to China in January 2018.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: Had you been to China before 2008?

Pascal Gentil: Yes, because as an athlete, I went to China in 2000 and 2004 to prepare for the Beijing Olympic Games and to compete against athletes who were bigger than elsewhere. And in some parts of China, they are very tall. When you look at the men's and women's national basketball teams, for example, they're all very tall. At the time, I remember a striking image: I was surrounded by 30 Chinese athletes, all taller than me. When I showed the photo to my friends back in France, they said: “Oh, you look normal compared to them”.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: But do they manage to achieve good results?

Pascal Gentil: In my individual sport, there's Liu Xiaojun. He won bronze at the 2012 London Olympics. The Chinese certainly win a lot of medals because there are so many of them, and their selection competitions are of a very high level, sometimes higher than international competitions. But they also train six to seven hours a day, six days a week. They train hard and get results as a result.

Abhinav Bindra: Each Chinese province is very strong and could organize an Olympic Games on its own. They have the necessary infrastructure. I'm very hopeful that India will be awarded the Games after Brisbane in 2036. It's not a question of whether India's bid will be successful, it's a question of when.

Thomas Mulhaupt: Which Indian city would be a candidate to host the Games?

Abhinav Bindra : I think it will be decided by the IOC Board of Directors. There's nothing official about it yet. The Games could be held in several cities at the same time.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: As an athlete, were you in China for the 2008 Olympics?

Abhinav Bindra: Yes, I was. You know, the Chinese are very strong in shooting events, with an incredible level of participation. A national competition is probably even more selective than an international one, given the sheer number of top-level athletes in the country.

This is true in my discipline but also in others, such as taekwondo, table tennis and gymnastics. They have a unique system. They detect talent at a very young age and take it to the top level.

Pascal Gentil: In China, you don't choose your discipline. They watch you and decide for you. If you're tall, you'll be directed towards basketball, for example.

Abhinav Bindra: Yes, it's a unique system in China. It's very difficult to reproduce elsewhere.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: In China, sport is an important component of soft power. So winning medals is crucial, as it's a way of demonstrating your country's power to the world.

Abhinav Bindra: Indeed, for many years, China did not perform well. For one or two Olympiads in the 70s, China didn't even take part in the competitions. I remember that in 1985, they won their first gold medal in shooting. It was a great success for them.

Thomas Mulhaupt: And how did you feel when you won your gold medal in 2008, against Chinese athletes competing in front of their home crowd?

Abhinav Bindra : The favorite was indeed a Chinese athlete. The atmosphere was incredible, with 10,000 spectators in attendance. It was a very competitive event. Winning that day was one of the greatest moments of my life, but it was also the result of many years of hard work. Winning a gold medal at the Olympic Games is the ultimate achievement for an athlete. But after winning the medal, I went through a period of doubt. I'd achieved my goal, but I didn't know what to do next. It was a difficult transition, and I had to find my balance again.

For India, this gold medal was our first, and it was very important. I was totally unprepared for what was to come. Fortunately, social networks didn't exist back then, otherwise things could have been totally different. But it was the greatest moment of my career.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: You say you achieved your goal with the gold medal. But did you carry on all the same?

Abhinav Bindra: The transition was difficult because as an athlete you're motivated by a single goal. For 15 years, my life was about achieving that goal. After Beijing, with my gold medal in my pocket, I was lost. Achieving a performance like that is emotionally and physically exhausting. I think we need time to regain our balance and the necessary energy. After the Beijing Games, I had no certainty about my future results and whether I'd win any more medals. That's a feeling that's common to all sportsmen and women. It took me a year to recover and regain the same energy. After that, I took part in two other Olympiads.

Pascal Gentil: Two more Olympics? That's the equivalent of 8 years.

Abhinav Bindra: Yes, I ended my career in 2016 at the Olympic Games in Rio. It was a good way to end 22 years of effort.

It was fantastic, and now that I look back, I think not about what I've achieved, but rather about what the sport has given me in terms of my relationships, with my parents, with my competitors and my coaches, who have become like family to me. These are memories I'll carry with me forever. To have won this medal is obviously fantastic. It's hanging on the wall, but I don't really know what to do with it. What's important is what you gain from this medal as a person, as a human being, in terms of the goals you set yourself.

Sport is unique in that it teaches you to win, but also to lose. Failure is a great way of strengthening yourself.

Pascal Gentil: That's what I always say: failure is the key to success.

Abhinav Bindra: Exactly, it's all about learning to fail in order to bounce back.

Pascal Gentil: In France, we value success and forget about failure, even though it's an essential element of success and progress. You won the gold medal in Beijing in 2008, then competed in the London Olympics and came fourth at the Rio Games in 2016. If you hadn't won in Beijing, do you think it would have had an impact on your participation in the Olympics that followed?

Abhinav Bindra: The tension was higher for London and I failed. Rio was a success for me despite my 4th place, because the level was very high. It was a good competition. Beijing deprived me of a year of solid preparation because of the emptiness I felt after my victory. I think that when you lose, yes, you're disappointed, but you still go back to competing quickly.

Pascal Gentil: I never won gold at the Olympics, but I stayed motivated all the same. I started taekwondo at the age of 18. At the time, people around me said it was too late to start a sporting career, but I proved them wrong. I hadn't even started yet, and people were telling me I couldn't do it. In the end, after two years, I won the European Championship and came second at the Worlds. I was told the same thing when I wanted to go into fashion, that I was too tall, not slim enough. In the end, I did an advert for the Hublot watch brand and for Clarins Cosmetics Worldwide. The key to success is to dream big and work hard. Once you've achieved your goal, you need to find a new challenge.

Thomas Mulhaupt: Today, mental health is a central issue in top-level sport. This aspect is further amplified by the emergence of social networks. During your respective careers, how did you manage the impact of your successes and failures on your mind?

Abhinav Bindra: Everyone thinks that athletes are mentally strong, but before being an athlete you're first and foremost a human being. We're as vulnerable as anyone else, if not more so. We are constantly faced with our successes and failures. We train hard, we need to recover both physically and mentally. We're under constant pressure and expectation, which can be mentally exhausting.

Pascal Gentil: Sport gives us the opportunity to surpass ourselves.

Thomas Mulhaupt: What's more, at a very high level, you have to constantly push your limits.

Abhinav Bindra: Yes, it's a constant challenge. High achievers sometimes lose their balance in life.

Pascal Gentil: We have to think about life after sport, how to get back to a normal life, how to deal with sponsors, how to sell our image without forgetting the family. We're not professionals, so we have to reconcile everything under a lot of pressure. My sponsors only give me money if I win, so I absolutely have to win.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: What official support has the government given you?

Pascal Gentil: We had a few grants, such as for accommodation and travel expenses, but we had to find extra money to meet our needs.

Abhinav Bindra: In India, I received support after my victory, but before that, it was difficult. It's better now, but it's still focused on certain sports. The challenge is to support yourself outside the sporting world. In the beginning, everything was based on my parents' bank account, but once I started winning, I started getting financial help from the government.

Pascal Gentil: In my case, my parents couldn't support me financially. I worked in a restaurant to finance my training.

Thomas Mulhaupt: In France, some athletes have jobs in the administration (police, customs) to support their training. Is this also the case in India?

Abhinav Bindra : It's the same in India. It's important for us athletes to have a professional qualification so that we can make an easier transition from sport to something else. Financial aid is never sustainable. In India, we have a lot of young athletes, but few of them manage to make a professional career. That's the law of sport.

What will happen to these young people who have failed? Will they have a good life afterwards? I think we need to promote the idea that you need to have a certain degree of professional qualifications other than sport beforehand. The main subject of interest should remain sport and training, but perhaps it's also necessary to devote an hour or two to certain training programs that will enable the athlete in question to bounce back after sport, to have a professional future.

Pascal Gentil: As athletes, we develop a lot of “soft skills”: knowing how to speak, learning foreign languages, which can be very useful if you work in a company, as part of a team. Some athletes don't realize that these are necessary skills to acquire if they want to be useful to society.

Abhinav Bindra: I'd like to come back to one point: failure. It's important for society to stop despising failure so much, including in sport. In a few weeks' time, you're going to have the Olympic Games in Paris with 15,000 athletes, and only 300 of them will go home with a gold medal. What will happen to the others? Just because they don't go home with a gold medal doesn't mean they've failed. Participating in the Games is already very complicated. The way we look at failure is wrong: failure sows the seeds of success.

Pascal Gentil: In the USA it's different, failure is a good thing. Failure doesn't deter them from giving their athletes a second chance, or even a third, and so on.

Thomas Mulhaupt: You've both taken part in all kinds of national and international competitions. How would you define the difference between the Olympic Games, the queen of competitions, and other types of tournaments?

Abhinav Bindra : I think the Olympic Games are the most “romantic” of sporting competitions, the ultimate goal. But I think what makes them difficult for athletes is their frequency, once every four years. Athletes work hard to reach the top in an event that takes place in a single day, and in some sports, in a matter of seconds. That makes these Games very exciting, with the whole world's attention focused on you.

Pascal Gentil: Being the champion of your sport is an intimate thing: you're at the table with the best, because you're one of the best.

Abhinav Bindra: The moment I'll never forget is when I was at my first Games in Sydney: I was 17. My teammate and I saw the Williams sisters. We went up to them and told them we wanted to take a photo with them, but that we hadn't brought our camera with us. We asked them to wait while we went to our room to get it.

We came back, and just as we were about to take the photo, we realized that there was no film. So we asked them, disbelievingly, to wait for us again. And to our surprise and delight, they were still there! They had waited for us and we took the photos! That's what the Olympic spirit is all about: it's not just about standing on the podium.

Everyone comes to compete, but there's harmony between us all, friendship and respect. It's a great lesson in humanity.

Thomas Mulhaupt: During the Euro soccer tournament, a number of French players spoke out publicly in connection with the French legislative elections. In your opinion, is it also the role of sportsmen and women to express their political opinions in order to influence public opinion?

Abhinav Bindra : I'm in favor of freedom of expression as a human being, but I don't think the Olympic Games lend themselves to it, since they symbolize unity and peace. It is necessary to remain neutral, at the risk of turning sport into a political platform, which is not desirable. You're free to do what you like off the pitch.

Pascal Gentil: Last week, I had the opportunity to welcome Tommie Smith, the athlete who raised his fist on the podium of the 1968 Olympic Games in Mexico City to protest against the discrimination suffered by African-Americans in his country, the USA. I totally agree with you that the playing field should remain neutral for us. But my job gave me this opportunity to meet this great figure in athletics, and we spent almost a week together, before he returned to his country. He'll be back in France in two weeks. He encourages us to take action at every level. At our level, we can all do something to turn things around. That's what I told my sporting friends yesterday about the current political situation in France.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: Each of you has left your mark on the history of your sport in your own country. Has your career had an impact on the younger generation?

Abhinav Bindra: Yes. For example, shooting has really developed. When I started competing at national level, there were around 200 athletes competing. And most of them took part in the 2008 Games. And today, if you go to our national championships, you'll see around 15,000 young people taking part. It's become a very important sport throughout the country.

More infrastructure has been developed. The shooting team remains very strong. There's a lot of talent in India.

Pascal Gentil: Concerning your question about the new generations, I always think back to when I started taekwondo, I was 18 in 1991. Nine years later, I took part in the Olympic Games. I brought home my first medal. Four years later, I won another Olympic medal. For Beijing, I was injured one month before the Games. I stopped my career in May 2009. I then flew to China, held a press conference and spoke to the media. I said: “I hope you'll continue to be interested in taekwondo”. Today, in France, when people talk about taekwondo, my name is associated with the discipline. My wish is that in Paris we win a gold medal. We haven't had a gold medal since I won bronze in Athens. The men haven't won any more gold medals, while the women triumphed in 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2021. Today, we have two gold medal world champions, ranked first and second in the world. They can win the gold medal.

The men are good, but we fight in the lighter categories, such as 58kg and 68kg, which are very tough. Asian athletes are very good in these two categories. I've done a lot to help develop my sport, by finding sponsors and getting politically involved to promote it. Prince Albert of Monaco came to my matches.

I've been everywhere to promote taekwondo: in prisons, in schools. Society is more connected to social networks these days. Athletes focus more on social networks and promote themselves, even if they haven't won.

I've always wanted to put my sport in the spotlight, not just myself. Taekwondo was the only federation without a president, so I lobbied for one. We now have one, one month before the Olympic Games.

I've done a lot for my sport and I'll continue to support it. I've been nominated for the Sports Integrity Award by the IOC, I've been an ambassador for the Paris 2024 Olympic Committee, and I've done so much more. I want these Games to be a success, and for that to happen, everyone has to be involved. I've been working with Aéroports de Paris (ADP), to engage volunteers for the Olympic and Paralympic Games. We're getting ready to welcome the athletes, making sure our facilities are ready. These Olympic Games are an opportunity to improve the way we welcome athletes. It's a big challenge, but a good one, just like being an athlete.

Thomas Mulhaupt: For future Games, like those potentially for India in 2036, Abhinav, would you also like to be involved?

Abhinav Bindra: Absolutely. I think it's very important to give back to sport. I've been involved with the IOC Athletes' Commission, focusing on mental health and prevention. I work a lot with my foundation to promote the practice of sport in India. We work in three areas, the first of which is support. We offer scholarships to 230 young athletes under a program called STEAM. We integrate science, technology and engineering into athlete training, and offer sports medicine programs.

We offer 100 free surgeries for injured athletes, as there are many injured athletes who have nowhere else to go. We also focus on education, creating an ecosystem around athletes. One of our key programs is Olympic Values Education, which promotes physical activity and character development. It is implemented in 60,000 schools in India, and reaches 12 million children.

This program has had a major impact, particularly in encouraging more girls to take up sporting activities. Because in schools in India, girls don't take part in sport. When we started the program, we were confronted with this problem. The boys resisted at first, but soon realized that the girls were very capable. This has had a positive impact, particularly on the girls' soccer teams: 64 schools have girls, who are often captains of their teams, and most of them were chosen by boys. It takes a lot of energy and time, but it's also highly motivating and I'm passionate about it.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: During the Olympic Games, the spirit of the Games is linked to peace. What do you think of this, especially as your sports, taekwondo and shooting, can be perceived as violent or martial?

Abhinav Bindra : Shooting doesn't meet the criteria of a combat sport. Shooting as a sport has a peaceful objective, because it's a sport that involves meditation. The Olympic Games promote peace and unity, because they bring together all nations, whatever their origin, culture or political situation. Athletes gather in the same place in unity around shared values.

Pascal Gentil: I focused on supporting people because of my upbringing. As an ambassador for peace in sport, I promote peace all over the world. Recently, we visited Saudi Arabia to promote peace through the “Peace and Sport” forum with pentathlete Joël Bouzou and footballer Didier Drogba.

Although we play very intense and spectacular sports, we behave in a respectful manner. Respect for our opponents is crucial because, without them, there's no match. You can't train completely on your own; you need partners to hold the targets you need to hit, and to train with. Teamwork is essential, even if the public often only sees the individual on the podium. You have to learn to stay humble.

Thomas Mulhaupt: What are your expectations and predictions for these Games in France?

Abhinav Bindra: I believe that Indian sports are continually developing and that we will see significant improvements in our medal count. Historically, India doesn't have an outstanding Olympic record, but I'm optimistic that we'll surpass our past performances and achieve double-digit medal counts. The Paris Games will be an unprecedented visual spectacle, with events taking place in the city's iconic venues. It will all be unique and more inclusive.

Pascal Gentil: The Games will indeed be inclusive, with parity between men and women among the athletes. This is a major step forward for equality. What's more, the innovation of staging the Marathon for All and other events at iconic venues will make these Games unforgettable. The Games' inclusivity and gender parity set a precedent.

It's a positive message that's in line with global movements in favor of equality. The marathon, for example, will have the same course and distance for men and women, with adjustments for weather conditions, making it a unique experience. As part of my role at ADP Paris, I'm delighted to welcome all the athletes and delegations. Since the arrival of the Olympic flame in Marseilles, enthusiasm and support for the Games have continued to grow.

This is the first time that events such as the marathon will be held in such famous locations. The opening ceremony will take place outdoors along the Seine, making it the first Olympic Games with an outdoor ceremony. For French athletes, competing at home will be a huge boost to their performances. The set-up of the competition venues, like the fencing near the Eiffel Tower, will be spectacular.

This enthusiasm is reflected in the French community, whose members are eagerly awaiting these Games. This is a significant change from recent Games where athletes had to leave immediately due to restrictions imposed by the COVID-19, such as Tokyo 2021 and Beijing 2022.

For these Paris Games, the athletes and public will be able to stay on and celebrate together, creating a festive atmosphere. The farewell party following the Closing Ceremony will be another highlight, allowing athletes to celebrate their achievements together.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: How will the Games be followed in India?

Abhinav Bindra: India's enthusiasm for the Games will be considerable. We're expecting strong participation from tourists and Indian supporters, and the Games will be widely broadcast in India. Many Indians will be following the Games closely, with great interest and enthusiasm. Even in Tokyo, the interest was immense, and we expect it to be even greater for Paris 2024.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: Will the Games be rebroadcast in India?

Abhinav Bindra: Yes, and the presence of an India House at the Games will also stimulate everyone's commitment. We're expecting strong participation from Indian tourists and supporters, and the Games will be widely broadcast in India. Many Indians will be following the Games closely, with great interest and enthusiasm. India's enthusiasm for the Games will be considerable. Even in Tokyo, the interest was immense, and we expect it to be even greater for Paris 2024.

Jean-Raphaël Peytregnet: Abhinav, do you have a particular message for the Games?

Abhinav Bindra: Indeed, the Paris 2024 Olympic Games will be a meeting of humanity to promote peace. It's not just about sport, but also about discovering the city of Paris, its history, culture and art.

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Pascal Gentil (YL 2018 France-China) is a former French taekwondoist, known for his many successes in international competition. He won two bronze medals at the Olympic Games, in 2000 in Sydney and in 2004 in Athens, in the over 80 kg category. Pascal Gentil is a two-time European champion, gold medallist in 1994 and 1998, and world champion in 1997 and 2001. In addition to his sporting career, he is involved in various media and humanitarian activities. He is often invited as a sports consultant and takes part in actions to promote sport and education among young people. Pascal Gentil is currently in charge of the Olympic and Paralympic Games mission within the ADP Group.

Abhinav Bindra (YL 2023 France-India) is a former Indian sports shooter, renowned for his exceptional performances in rifle shooting. He won the gold medal at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games in the 10-meter rifle event, becoming the first Indian to win an individual gold medal at the Olympic Games. Abhinav Bindra has also won numerous medals in other international competitions, including the World Championships and the Commonwealth Games. In addition to his sporting career, he is involved in various philanthropic and entrepreneurial activities. He founded the Abhinav Bindra Foundation, which aims to promote sport and the well-being of athletes in India.